Learn more over on our Iraq page! And send us questions and comments to Hannah@servantgroup.org.

How have you been shaped by where you live?

Here's a rough transcript of our episode on how Iraq changed us.

Hannah: Welcome to "Between Iraq and a Hard Place." It's our fiftieth episode, Colleen!

Colleen: I can't believe that it's been that many episodes.

Hannah: I know I keep telling people it's our fiftieth anniversary and they're like, well, you don't seem that old. I'm not. But it's our fiftieth episode. So we're going to do something obviously a little bit different.

Colleen: Yeah, I think it'll be fun, even if it's a little bit wacky.

Hannah: Yeah, it's really going to be more stream of consciousness than, like, planned.

Colleen: I mean, we have a topic.. it's just a topic that includes a lot of little bits and pieces.

Hannah: Yeah. So it's going to be very reminiscy.

Colleen: Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah: And I'm coining that term, reminiscy.

Colleen: I like it.

Hannah: All right.

Colleen: I think it works.

Hannah: So what are we talking about?

Colleen: We are talking about ways that we either changed permanently by living in Iraq or things that we still do because of our time in Iraq.

Hannah: Right. So it's a little bit of a throwback to our reverse culture shock episodes. But I think because we did that, we've noticed even more things that we do that are odd.

Colleen: Well, and since then, we also got a new roommate. And some of the things that we've included today are things that she's actually mentioned to us.

Hannah: Right.

Colleen: Like, wait, why do you do that, that way? And we're like, that's not normal? Oh, well, I mean, that's the way they do it in Iraq.

Hannah: Right. Yeah. I think the biggest thing we get comments on from her is sitting around with the lights off.

Colleen: That's true. We sometimes don't think about turning the lights on and kind of just assumed that if the lights are off…

Hannah: maybe the power's gone out, like it just seems natural to not turn lights on when it gets dark.

Colleen: Yeah, I don't know. We just both got more accustomed to functioning in low light environments. It's not the first thing that comes to mind once it starts getting dark is to turn the lights on.

Hannah: Or even in the morning. Like when I get up to shower, I don't turn the bathroom lights on right away. I will shower in the semi-dark because it seems calmer.

Colleen: Yeah, it's a little less abrasive. But again, I think we just got used to doing those things in the dark and so it doesn't occur to us that we need to do it any other way. We even get a little bit of a hard time given to us here at the office. People walk by our office is like, what are you doing sitting in the dark? I mean, it's not dark, dark. It's not pitch black. I can see everything just fine. Yes.

Hannah: Steve calls me the Child of Darkness for that very reason, although in my defense, the lights in my office did not work for a long time.

Colleen: That's true and wasn't your fault!

Hannah: I was OK with it, though. I wasn't like, hey, I really need to get my lights fixed. I was like, yeah, my lights don't work. It's fine, it's fine. It's no problem. Which I think maybe is also a carryover from Iraq of like it's going to be such a hassle to fix the things that are broken that I'm just not even going to I'm just going to live with the broken thing. It's fine.

Colleen: Yeah. I think along with that comes the I'm going to fix it myself issue. That is also still partly a hangover from Iraq and partly also just the way I was raised, the idea that you could call someone to come and fix something and they would do it in a timely manner and do it well is foreign.

Hannah: Right? It's a very American expectation in some ways. Because, yeah, I know we went round and round and round with our water heater and we get fixed and a week later it'd break again and then they'd come and they would fix it. And we went probably more than a month without hot water in the middle of winter. And there just comes a point where you have to be like, this is fine. Like if the water heater never gets fixed, I can obviously live without one.

Colleen: And it's not worth the hassle of either trying to communicate to someone that this thing needs fixed or what's wrong with it or deal with the having to stay home to maybe wait for someone who might or might not show up within a week.

Hannah: Right. If you're lucky. Yeah. I mean, we've definitely had to wait for a repairman here in the US, but they usually show up the day that they said they would.

Colleen: And within the time frame that they say they will.

Hannah: Maybe like an hour on either end, but within pretty close. It didn't always work that way in Kurdistan. So, yeah, you start fixing things yourself or like jury rigging things so that they kind of work until the person comes, that can actually fix it.

Colleen: I did a lot of really random home repairs in Iraq that were absolutely better choices than trying to find someone else to fix them. Sure. That dryer door still has, I'm sure, a binder clip in its mechanism.

Hannah: But it worked.

Colleen: It worked perfectly.

Hannah: All right. That's all you need. I think adjacent to that is that when repairman repairmen come into our house, we leave the front door open. Yeah, always.

Colleen: It just seems so normal.

Hannah: Right. It is a weird thing to have a strange man coming to your house and then close the door behind him.

Colleen: Yeah, like I open it.

Hannah: He could be doing anything in there. And again, in America we know I was a repairman. Whatever.

Colleen: It's going to be fine, like, I don't think there was ever any there's, never been any actual concern. I've never been afraid of the repairman who've come by our home.

Hannah: But it's just one of those things, the like so that your neighbors think that you are a good person. You leave the front door open.

Colleen: So your neighbors know that there's nothing going on. And that you're safe. Because it means that anyone could pop in at any moment.

Hannah: And and do our neighbors here in Nashville care? I don't think so.

Colleen: Not in the slightest. They're probably not even home.

Hannah: If you're one of our neighbors and you care, let us know. I am curious about that. But I really don't. I really don't think they care.

Colleen: I don't think they care.

Hannah: I don't know how close of track they keep of our goings and comings.

Colleen: And that is a big difference.

Hannah: It's true. It's true.

Colleen: In Iraq, your neighbors keep really close track of you. And I think maybe that's another thing that's rubbed off a little bit like we do watch our neighbors.

Hannah: It's true. It's a terrible habit, but it's also kind of like- What's going on? Who is that? Is that person supposed to be there? What are they doing? Why are they doing that? Oh, there's our neighbor. OK, it must be fine. I have definitely stood at our large front windows with my hands on my hips, just watching what's going on.

Colleen: We're like, oh, that guy, he ran up the street and that girl who normally is walking with him was jogging about ten feet behind him. And then they jogged back down and then they jogged back up and then they jogged back down. And we're like, Mmm she's getting farther behind!

Hannah: Right. Or this random stranger who I have seen before is now walking with a dog. It's a cute dog. Will they be back with the dog tomorrow? I don't know. We'll have to watch. That is something that some of our neighbors picked up on, because you can definitely see us from the street. And we have these neighbors that walk down with their kids in strollers. And then when they walk back up, the dad pushes the stroller, like way ahead of him.

Colleen: Every time; it's so fun.

Hannah: Every time. And the first time I noticed it, I was like, there's a stroller!

Colleen: Because you just see the stroller without any adult! It is a little unnerving.

Hannah: Right, and then he walks up and he now always waves at us if he can see that we're standing there, which means that I don't stand at the window quite as much because I'm a little embarrassed about my curiosity into the lives of strangers.

Colleen: I mean, but that curiosity stretches into another area: in the cars. Because you also Kurds stare into the cars of other people that are driving. Right. And I don't do it all that often, but I do it enough that I can tell when I can't see in, like when the windows are tinted. I feel like there's something wrong.

Hannah: Right. Yeah, but we have this, like, idea that our car is like our little sanctuary. And even if if we in the back of our minds know that people can see in, we're like, yeah, but nobody's looking at me because I'm in my car. But in Kurdistan, everyone's looking at you all the time.

Colleen: Even inside your car.

Hannah: Even inside your car. Yeah, it makes me uncomfortable sometimes because I'll catch myself doing it. And then the person who I'm watching will, like, turn and make eye contact with me. And I'm like, all right, this is America. I'm not supposed to be looking at it you. So Sorry! Eyes forward!

Colleen: I mean, it goes to with the like you said, the tinted windows because in Iraq tinted windows are illegal unless you are somebody important. Which just why all of the SUVs with the important officials all have the super tinted windows you can't see in and nobody else does.

Hannah: I never knew that this is new information. Just today, personal boundaries is a is a different animal for sure.

Colleen: Yeah. Oh, also in cars. How often do you check behind yourself to see if somebody is following you?

Hannah: All the time?

Colleen: Yeah.

Hannah: I also like alter and I've stopped doing this to some extent because there are really only two ways to get out of our neighborhood. But I do often think about altering my routes and I go places.

Colleen: Yep.

Hannah: Like I always feel better when the mapping software is like going down that main road is going to take too long. We're going to take you through a neighborhood. I always kind of congratulate myself for like, "Haha no one will be able to keep track of where I'm going." Until I drive that route and realize that everyone else's GPS is also taking them that way.

Colleen: and along that same route.

Hannah: Forget it. I'm not as sneaky as I thought.

Colleen: Yeah. But both of those were things that I feel like I trained myself to do in Iraq and continue to do unless I actively tell my brain to stop it. Be quiet.

Hannah: I mean, have you even done it and gotten all the way up to our street and noticed the car behind me was still following me and thought, is this one of my neighbors? I'm going to go drive the like cul de sac and then turn back around and see if they, like, follow me?

Colleen: Oh, absolutely. I've totally done that.

Hannah: And it was one of the neighbors and I think they maybe thought I was a little crazy. But again, I don't actually know. I don't ask those questions. Please, neighbors don't contact me and be like, yes, we know you're crazy. We know the girls in that house.

Colleen: Yeah, I think I think they are. Any of them that know us, already know we're crazy.

Hannah: Do you want to talk about spoons?

Colleen: Oh, yeah, there's like a whole section for food and restaurants,

Hannah: Food and restaurants. Yeah, I don't think I really thought about this as an Iraq habit until we went over to our Iraqi friend's house for dinner and she handed everybody spoons. And that's what we ate the whole dinner with, with spoons,

Colleen: Even though it was meat and vegetables.

Hannah: And to me it felt very like natural in some ways, like, oh, yeah, this is how you use your spoon to get the chicken off the bone. But I noticed that one of our non Iraq living friends that was with us like picked up the whole piece of chicken and was like, what do I do with this? But spoons, like, I use a spoon now, like a fork and a knife and a spoon. And if I make a meal just for myself, I'll usually eat it with a spoon rather than anything else. It's just a really convenient eating device.

Colleen: It's very useful.

Hannah: It is very useful. And that's very Iraqi. Is that every meal you get a spoon and a fork or…

Colleen: No forks.

Hannah: Just a spoon?

Colleen: There are not usually forks.

Hannah: Right. And and so you have to navigate this like 18 course dinner with one spoon and you figure it out pretty quickly.

Colleen: It totally works.

Hannah: It does because you can also use bread and like, it's not rude to you with your hands depending on what it is. And yeah. And it's just I don't know, I like a spoon.

Colleen: Here's a question for you. Do you like ice in your water?

Hannah: No.

Colleen: Did you like ice in your water before you lived in Iraq?

Hannah: Yes. It has to be a really hot day for me to want ice in my water, like hot. And even then, I'd rather have refrigerated water than ice in my water.

Colleen: Yeah, I definitely got used to drinking water with no ice in it in Iraq. And I think the choice there at first, at least, was often you would use bottled water, but the ice would be made from tap water, which isn't always drinkable.

Hannah: Right.

Colleen: And or at least not always drinkable by week stomached Americans. And so I recently have been experimenting with putting ice back in my water to see if I like it and meh.

Hannah: Right. Right. I mean, I like cold water.

Colleen: Yeah.

Hannah: And even if I put ice in my water, I usually wait for it to melt before I drink it. So the water is cold, but I don't have those big chunks of ice in it.

Colleen: Yeah, it's awkward, it doesn't feel nice.

Hannah: And it's even to the point where if we have people over for dinner, sometimes I forget to put ice in cups.

Colleen: Oh yeah. I don't usually put ice in cups.

Hannah: Because it's like what do you need ice in your cup for. There's ice in the water that's in the pitcher

Colleen: I do put ice in the water in the pitcher. But yeah, I don't usually think to put ice in the cups. That is the way of things here, isn't it.

Hannah: Yeah. It's, it's bad. It's bad American of us Colleen. It's okay. It's all right.

Colleen: So going out to a restaurant, obviously, I would always ask for no ice. The other thing that I realized you always had to ask for at a restaurant is the check.

Hannah: Oh yeah. In Iraq.

Colleen: In Iraq. Not here. Here you're done eating or you're done ordering things like they'll bring you your check. They want the turnover. They want that server to be able to get the tips from your meal. They want you to be able to leave if you want to. That is considered pushy and rude from a server or a restaurant person. But if you aren't aware of it, you may sit there for a very long time waiting for the check to show up. When really what you have to do is ask for it.

Hannah: Which can also be difficult to do because you have to, like, waive the person down.

Colleen: Yeah, because they're not hovering over your table wanting to refill your drinks all the time.

Hannah: They're busy doing other things.

Colleen: Other things, drinking their tea.

Hannah: That's another thing that I only ever saw men ask for the check.

Colleen: Oh really?

Hannah: Yeah. I never saw a woman ask for a check.

Colleen: Did you never go out to eat without men.

Hannah: No, I mean that's part of the problem. But yeah, it was always the men. And the fighting over the check.

Colleen: Oh yeah.

Hannah: Is hilarious. We don't do that.

Colleen: No. We're not rich enough to do that.

Hannah: For sure not. The other thing that you do in restaurants and maybe you do this if you're like me, you do this other places as well. Where do you sit in a restaurant?

Colleen: Oh, always back to a wall, face towards the door, if at all possible, and not near the window.

Hannah: I'm not near windows and in a booth, if you can get it.

Colleen: Yep.

Hannah: Yeah.

Colleen: It's safer.

Hannah: Yeah. Hundred percent. This is why we don't go out to eat with each other without other people because we would end up sitting on the same side of the table or one of us would feel deeply uncomfortable through the whole meal because our back is to the door.

Colleen: Yeah, yeah. That's why it has gotten better over time. Like, I am less uncomfortable in that situation now than I was when I first came back. Right. Those kind of like weird I don't know if safety precautions I mean, that's what they are originally. Right.

Hannah: Like in a little bit turns into paranoia a little bit because I can't I can't not see it like that. Like, if I do, I feel deeply uncomfortable through the whole meal.

Colleen: But I will say a large portion of that is not conscious anymore. Right. Like, I choose those spots without thinking about it necessarily. And it's not until I'm seated somewhere different that I go, why am I nervous or why am I uncomfortable? Like, oh, right. I didn't get to sit there.

Hannah: MmmHmm. I don't want to be here anymore! And it's because I can't see the door.

Colleen: Yeah. Or there's like a flow of traffic behind me all the time and I keep peeking behind me and twisting my neck just further evidence that how messed up we are. It's great! It's so great!

Hannah: We're not the only people that do that. Maybe other people also do it, that we're not living in a somewhat dangerous area of the world.

Colleen: Yeah. I mean, like, the reason you don't sit next to a window is because if a bomb went off in the street, like that's where you're going to get cut by glass and things like that, pair that with our natural response to a potential bomb threat. And like, it doesn't quite make sense that we would still be concerned about those things because, I mean, it was a few weeks ago, a few months ago that there was a rumor about a bomb in Nashville that was a good long distance from us and our office.

Hannah: Well, and by a good long distance, like it was in the same general neighborhood.

Colleen: I mean, not….

Hannah: General neighborhood

Colleen: It was in south Nashville, I guess.

Hannah: It was in south Nashville, it was within where we normally would be driving, like,

Colleen: OK.

Hannah: We wouldn't have to go out of our way to get there

Colleen: Right. Right. But I mean, definitely far enough away that our office and building is not at all at threat.

Hannah: Right. Which is a thing that we just knew.

Colleen: Right.

Hannah: We didn't have to look it up on the Internet. How far away from a bomb do you have to be to be safe?

Colleen: And we're like, even if it's as big as a car bomb, like, we're fine here. And one of our other friends was like, are we going to be OK? Is this OK?

Hannah: Do we need to leave? Do we need to go somewhere else? Like, no, no, you're fine. You're fine. You're in a cement block building. You'll be fine. You're like fifteen blocks from there. You're fine. It's not a problem.

Colleen: But yeah, this is knowledge that we absorbed in Iraq.

Hannah: Do you feel like it takes a lot to freak us out about something? Like even the bombing that did happen in Nashville at Christmas time on Christmas Day, which was terrible, it was a terrible thing. But I remember hearing, learning about it from my sister who texted me. I'm like, sorry, I heard about the bombing, what's going on in Nashville? And I was like, what's going on in Nashville?

Colleen: I had the same thing happen with my uncle.

Hannah: And then I read some news articles and I was like, oh, like, no, no one was killed. It is a big deal. It caused a lot of damage. But in the grand scheme of things, it's not the horrible thing that you think that it is. Where like the bombings that happened in Erbil were like mass casualty events.

Colleen: Or the explosion in Beirut.

Hannah: Yeah. Oh my word!

Colleen: Where you have just a whole different scale of what is worth getting, really, like what's worth getting worked up over.

Hannah: Which again, is not to minimize the damage that was done to buildings and businesses in Nashville. But if we we hear about those things and we hear that no one was killed or injured, our reaction is going to be like, well, yeah, that really sucks. Not like deep grief, necessarily. Which I think is the Iraqi sense of like, things are bad, but they could always get worse.

Colleen: A little edge of pessimism, there!

Hannah: A little bit! It like bleeds over into my life in weird ways.

Colleen: Definitely.

Hannah: What else?

Colleen: Hand gestures.

Hannah: Oh, yeah.

Colleen: Are there any hand gestures you still use that you learned in Iraq?

Hannah: The biggest one I think that I use is when I see someone that I know, but they're too far away for me to talk to or in Covid times we don't shake hands. I wave at them with my palm open facing them and then put that palm to my heart and pat my chest a couple of times to be like, I see you, I acknowledge you, you're with me. Total, total Iraq Kurd thing.

Colleen: Yeah.

Hannah: Never, ever did that before. I lived there.

Colleen: Yeah. There. It's the greeting that you use for people that are either too far away or of the opposite gender. Like you don't want to touch them.

Hannah: Even older people I think it's done with someone that you're respectful there.

Colleen: Yes. Respect. Yeah. I do that still as well. The other one that I have found myself using occasionally, although primarily in the car where no one can actually see it, is the wait symbol, which is when you take all of your fingers together in a group and point them upwards. And like it's described, I think kind of is like making your hand into a pair shape.

Hannah: I would say, teardrop.

Colleen: A teardrop shape with the fingers all together at the top and the palm facing up. But at the bottom.

Hannah: Right, right. Like if you think of it like that classic Italian gesture of the pointer and thumb together and then you just add all the other fingers to it.

Colleen: This is the the wait from either like in Kurdistan, it's the wait from the police officer who wants you not to go yet. Like wait from a parent to a child or the teacher to the student or

Hannah: It's a downward wait, not an upward wait. Like you would never do that to somebody in authority over you.

Colleen: Yeah.

Hannah: You would drop everything and listen to them. That one the other one that I use a lot is the dusting of the hands. And then pushing them away. Oh, like it's finished, it's done, and I don't know if that's common or if it was just the way that the man who helped me get my visa explained to me, communicated to me that the process was over the, like, wipe their hands and then like like you're throwing the towel down. Yeah. And I was went with ta-wow. Ta-wow. It's done. It's finished. I use that one today.

Colleen: There you go. The other one actually goes a little bit with some of the other ones with the other topic. But the asking for a check, which maybe because you never had to do it, but you hold one hand out and you take your other hand and your four fingers together, kind of run it across the top of your palm.

Hannah: Do you do it down in front of you or up like pointing at them?

Colleen: Yeah, you point you point at your open palm so they can see or like it could be… Yeah no…

Hannah: Because you want to get their attention.

Colleen: Yeah, we wouldn't do it down low. So, yeah, you do it usually up high.

Hannah: I've seen that and I've also seen just a pointer finger on the palm. Yeah. Which I think is a little more like it's taking too long. Hurry up.

Colleen: But essentially your open flat palm is like the check, the bill and you're like, I want it here.

Hannah: Here, give it to me.

Colleen: Put it on my hand. I don't know. But I have used that one in a restaurant and I was had this momentary thought of I wonder if they understood me.

Hannah: Or like, is that super rude in America? I don't know. Like it doesn't it feel rude. But I don't have a context. I don't know.

Colleen: I mean how is there a hand signal for asking for the check in America?

Hannah: You just put like a finger up?

Colleen: And then you have to like verbally talk to them.

Hannah: Can I get the check? It's true. But I mean, maybe that's, maybe that is the way. The other thing that's a rudeness thing is I can't sit in a group of people without thinking about the direction of my feet.

Colleen: Yeah.

Hannah: Like is the sole of my feet pointing at someone else. And if it is, I almost always fight the urge to apologize to them.

Colleen: Yeah.

Hannah: And be like, I'm sorry about my foot. I've done it like in, in my church small group. I crossed my legs and pointed my foot at my small group leader, who I love and adore and respect. And I was like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry about my foot. And they were like, you didn't touch me. And I was like, no, but I'm pointing. Oh, right. You don't care! Sorry, everyone!

Colleen: Yeah, yeah. I don't know that I've ever apologized to someone for it, but it's definitely something that I'm aware of. Pretty much. Yeah. Any time I'm in public. I also know that like if I'm going to somebody's house, I make sure that I'm wearing decent socks.

Hannah: Right.

Colleen: Because I expect to take my shoes off.

Hannah: Gotta take off your shoes.

Colleen: Right. Even though we don't in everybody's homes, I am always prepared to.

Hannah: Good for you.

Colleen: Thanks. No holy socks on days I visit people.

Hannah: That's that's fair. I always try to pick my fun socks like my unicorn socks or my narwhal socks. And then get my feelings a little hurt if somebody doesn't compliment me on my socks, but I don't think that's an Iraq thing, I think that's just a youngest child need for attention that we're not going to get into!

Hannah: Anything else, anything else that's like a weird habit?

Colleen: I'm sure there are lots of other things, but in part because we work with a lot of other people who've lived in Iraq, I think some of those things are hidden, because a lot of the people around us probably also do those same things. I know there are times where, like my sister has given me a hard time about scowling when I walk in a mall or out in public.

Hannah: The general expression on the face being a dower one.

Colleen: And like, you know, there it was. Don't talk to me. I'm busy. Please don't flirt with me or think that I'm wanting to be stopped by every other person.

Hannah: Also, this is just the way that everyone else is faces look.

Colleen: Right. Right. That's just how do you look in public.

Hannah: Blank, non-committal. Where in America, if you don't look happy, people think something is wrong with you. You smile at strangers, here. I still. Yeah, I have a hard time with that. Again. Might not be Iraq, might just be my personality. I don't know anymore. That's part of the problem. I just. I don't know.

Colleen: I don't know what we would be without that. Yeah. In part because both of us went there kind of as our first adult job.

Hannah: Right. Living on your own…

Colleen: …post college.

Hannah: Real life.

Colleen: Real life. And so it formed a lot of features about us.

Hannah: Right. How we adult.

Colleen: But we both adult decently well. I don't find it a huge struggle. So…

Hannah: We're making it. We had better be making it by now. Or we'd be in big trouble. Oh, man. Share with us some of the things that have shaped your life. Weird things, maybe you moved in with a new roommate or got married and your spouse/roommate was like, why do you do the dishes that way? We like to hear those things, too, because we've definitely had that as well. You just can't chalk it up to Iraq.

Colleen: All right, happy fiftieth episode!

Hannah: Happy fiftieth episode. Yay!

Colleen: Next time. The Chaldean Church?

Hannah: Next time, Chaldean Christians in Iraq. I think it's going to be a two parter at least maybe a three parter if we get into the Assyrians because they're different. A little teaser for you there.

Colleen: Wahoo!

Colleen: We'd love to hear from you. You can find us at Servant Group International on Facebook or Instagram, and you should check out our blog and complete transcripts over at servantgroup.org

Hannah: And it's really helpful for us if you share our podcast or leave a review on whatever platform you listen to this podcast on. It helps us know that people are listening and you can let us know what you want to hear next.

Both: Thanks for listening!

Hannah: Man, we're bad Americans. It's OK. It's all right.